Curse

Polynikes of Sparta · Mar 19, 2007, 07:47 PM // 19:47

[skill=big]Shield of Absorption[/skill]

VS.

[skill=big]Shielding Hands[/skill]

Big conflict on which one is more effective in PvE. Before, Shield of Absorption was the hands-down choice, but now, it isn't because of the increased cast time. At 15 Protection Prayers, you need Shield of Absorption to hit at least seven times to beat out Shielding Hands, and Shielding Hands has a much lower cast time.

Information (at 15 Protection Prayers) -
Shielding Hands-18,18,18,18,18,18,18 = 126
Shield of Absorption-5,10,15,20,25,30,35 = 140

Now since SoA doesn't last that long, 8 seconds on my character, you will need to be attacked constantly to bring out effectiveness.

What are your opinions on this matter? I especially want to hear from the OH-SO-SKILLED mods/admins. Thanks.

~Polynikes

Epic Monkey Battle · Mar 19, 2007, 07:59 PM // 19:59

In pve I would say it depends on the area, SoA is awesome for reducing damage on targets that like to stand in AoE. But for areas where it is direct damage from melee, shielding hands might be better as they will take less hits and therefore benefit more from shielding hands than SoA.

eggs0wn · Mar 19, 2007, 08:03 PM // 20:03

I use both. Stacking Shielding Hands and Shield of Absorption really makes the damage go down. However, I I hate to pick one I would go with Shielding Hands-I just like it more.

Polynikes of Sparta · Mar 19, 2007, 08:06 PM // 20:06

I also use both sometimes to stack, but more to balance the recharges of both of them. I tend to carry Shielding Hands more, also, because of the .25 second cast. low cast time ftw. but wanna hear more opinions!

Samuel Dravis · Mar 19, 2007, 08:50 PM // 20:50

On my prot bar I usually bring both. SoA is always useful in PvE, particular the parts where they like to try spiking down monks. SH is great because of its cast time and the amount of reduction (17 @ 14prot). Useful for tanks particularly, and other chars with better armor.

olly123 · Mar 19, 2007, 09:55 PM // 21:55

i my self am more SoA tho i prefer Shealing, i just never used shealiding so i cant b bothed to get into it.

Polynikes of Sparta · Mar 19, 2007, 10:11 PM // 22:11

umm shealiding??? is that SoR? plz explain. ty

XvArchonvX · Mar 20, 2007, 12:18 AM // 00:18

After the cast time nerf, I go with Shielding Hands in PvE. In instances where one target gets hit with a spike of damages from multiple sources, SoA shines, but that just doesn't happen enough in PvE to merit it's spot. I don't think either is a bad choice, but if I have to choose one, I'll stick with Shielding.

Batou of Nine · Mar 20, 2007, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epic Monkey Battle

In pve I would say it depends on the area, SoA is awesome for reducing damage on targets that like to stand in AoE. But for areas where it is direct damage from melee, shielding hands might be better as they will take less hits and therefore benefit more from shielding hands than SoA.

i tend to agree. I always adjust my bar according to the area. So when i am about to enter an area i know has lots of AoE dmg sources, i want to stick with SoA. Going into an area that i know has more physically based damage with more single target enemies, i tend to take Shielding Hands.

Taking both at the same time is not very productive in my opinion. Sure it will really reduce a large amount of dmg on that one ally, but i would rather have that 2nd slot for another good monk utility skill.

Anyway, i dont think either is necessarily "better" than the other. As with my first paragraph, i tend to prefer each when a certain situation/area comes to play. Hope that all makes sense and helps a bit!

cheers

Polynikes of Sparta · Mar 20, 2007, 12:43 AM // 00:43

thank you thank you. anymore opinions?

Effigy · Mar 20, 2007, 01:09 AM // 01:09

For PvE and most PvP, I like SH better. SoA is only good if one person is getting focus fired whereas SH is good against pretty much everything, even one melee attacker.

Polynikes of Sparta · Mar 20, 2007, 01:20 AM // 01:20

also, a bit off-topic question.

is it wise to run ZB in an 8-man party, or should i stick with SoR or RC cuz theres another heal monk? overlaps scare me =P

Effigy · Mar 20, 2007, 01:31 AM // 01:31

ZB can be good in a 8-man party, but it can be a bit touchy with 2 monks since you won't always get the energy bonus. If you bring GoLE with it, this isn't too much of a problem. Also if you know the other monk well enough you can better gauge who they'll heal and when, so you don't double up too much.

Epic Monkey Battle · Mar 20, 2007, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Batou of Nine

Taking both at the same time is not very productive in my opinion. Sure it will really reduce a large amount of dmg on that one ally, but i would rather have that 2nd slot for another good monk utility skill.

I agree and guardian is an awesome skill to stick in there.

Racthoh · Mar 20, 2007, 06:42 AM // 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polynikes of Sparta

Big conflict on which one is more effective in PvE. Before, Shield of Absorption was the hands-down choice, but now, it isn't because of the increased cast time.

I still consider SoA the hands down choice in PvE. The cast time change wasn't exactly a big deal, how many extra hits are you going to suffer in that extra 3/4 longer cast anyway? If something is dying, quickly, odds are the damage reduction from Shielding Hands or Shield of Absorption isn't going to save it; a Protective Spirit or Spirit Bond would handle that task much smoother. Consider any endgame PvE level 24+ elementalist and how much they hit a soft target for; personally my mind wouldn't be thinking to toss even a 1/4 SoA (when it was 1/4) at them.

I play Shield of Absorption in the same way I played with Healing Seed; toss it on a warrior, cover, and aggro. Mid-combat it's simply a matter of which red bar seems to be taking hits most often.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polynikes of Sparta

At 15 Protection Prayers, you need Shield of Absorption to hit at least seven times to beat out Shielding Hands, and Shielding Hands has a much lower cast time.

Why 15? The breakpoint for Shield of Absorption is at 14 which works out nicely with a 12 + hat + rune spec. For that matter 14 is also the break for Aegis at 11 seconds, what is so crucial that you're using at least a major rune sacrificing 35 health to hit that 15 in protection prayers?

If used properly, seven hits to a shield is nothing (something as simple as two enemies auto-attacking you will achieve 7 hits in 7 seconds of SoA). Given that the change in cast time is a big issue to you I can only assume you're using it on a target that was under focussed fire, so seven hits should never be difficult to achieve. In roughly a minute, you can cast Shield of Absorption 6 times and Shielding Hands only 4 times. 42 seconds worth of damage reduction vs. 32 seconds of damage reduction. Not that a battle should extend that long, but Shield of Absorption is up much longer and can be reused more often.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polynikes of Sparta

Now since SoA doesn't last that long, 8 seconds on my character, you will need to be attacked constantly to bring out effectiveness.

Only the cast time of SoA has changed since release. Casting time is something I really only consider in PvP; not like enemies can coordinate spikes in PvE that a Protective Spirit + RoF can't save.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polynikes of Sparta

is it wise to run ZB in an 8-man party, or should i stick with SoR or RC cuz theres another heal monk? overlaps scare me =P

If you're the only monk in a group of 8 it makes ZB a lot more fun to play.

Flashy · Mar 20, 2007, 02:07 PM // 14:07

its a vs. that relies on the playing style of a monk...

1 prefers SoA and other prefer SH...

I use SoA in pressure areas... The areas they deal low damage at the start to unleash the high damage (Warriors and Assassins)... so they start with a burst of low damage to unleash the high damage after that but that get engated by SoA...

I use SH in areas where they start with high damage and finish with the low hits... so they deal loads of damage at the start to then 'infuse' the target with SH to negate the next burst of low damage attacks...

Peace Out,

Flashy

Polynikes of Sparta · Mar 23, 2007, 07:45 PM // 19:45

bumpity bump anymore opinions? either that or close da thread.

~Polynikes

majeh456 · Mar 23, 2007, 11:00 PM // 23:00

I like to use both of them because I can rotate them whenver I see fit. I use SoA, SH, Guardian and RoF, and those have done a very good job in knocking damage down, no matter the area. I don't have any monk elites yet, so I am not sure which one to get, but it seems that ZB is definantly the way to go. Looks like I'm going to halt my Tyrian advance and start on Elona, until I get ZB that is.

Polynikes of Sparta · Mar 24, 2007, 12:17 AM // 00:17

my build:

zb
rof
ps
soa or sh
gole
aegis
sig devotion or rarely dismiss (hate condition removal)
rebirth

Samuel Dravis · Mar 24, 2007, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polynikes of Sparta

sig devotion or rarely dismiss (hate condition removal)

Um, why would you hate condition removal? Dismiss is good because it

1) Removes the condition
2) Does an orison level heal when enchanted ([email protected]+divine)
3) Recharge is 3 seconds (2 seconds faster than Sig of Devotion)

Requirement 2 is incredibly easy to meet. Why would you take sig of devotion, with its incredibly long cast time and nonexistent utility, instead of Dismiss? If you're having energy problems, Aegis usually isn't needed at all in PvE. If you work it right (kite, etc) only a few people will be being hit enough to take significant damage from melee. That frees up 2 slots for emanagement and other utility. I'd suggest Channeling, with 6 in inspiration, as well as Holy Veil. Besides, healing is what you have ZB for.